During church this morning we had a sermon on homosexuality. You may disagree or agree, but be polite about it. This is a hot topic that is literally dividing America. Nothing has caused more division since the civil war than abortion and homosexuality.
I am accepting of all view points. I might not agree or disagree with you, but I believe in a man’s right to speak.
This is a summary of our pastor’s biblical and researched truths presented this morning.
Let’s take a look at what the Bible says in 1 Corinthians Chapter 6 about sexual immorality.
Sexual Immorality
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b] 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c]
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
Where we are as a society is represented in this cartoon.
So we as a society are pushing abnormal as normal. If you repeat over and over that abnormal is normal what you get is something like this analogy. A man is in a boat and it is full of people. The man decides to start drilling a hole in the boat. Another person observes this and says,”Hey, what are you doing drilling a hole in the boat? This is bad.” The other man then says,”Mind your own business. Go to the other side of the boat. You are intolerant of my drilling, and I am harming no one.”
The problem is, as you can see in your imagination, the water is going to flood the whole boat, touch everyone, and then the boat is going to sink.
So you see Christians have to hate the sin of homosexuality, but we love all homosexuals, and they are welcome to change, be redeemed, and turn against their sins. However, homosexuals are not welcome to teach, persuade others, and be actively gay in church. People like this are destroyers and work for satan.
Why Christians fight normalizing and allowing gay marriage
Christians fight gay marriage because it redefines what is true. Without objective truth, one has lies and chaos. Sounds like the World today doesn’t it? There are people already lined up ready to push for polygamy and pedophilia. When you allow one sin to take over, you have opened up a hole in the boat.
In countries around the World, that have allowed gay marriage, there are laws against speaking against it. It is criminal. Religious liberty has been lost in those lands. It has been thrown away.
Do not be deceived that this sin is o.k. It’s like Eve selling Adam the apple. We all know the problems that has caused. The worst thing a person can do to anyone is tell them a lie is truth.
Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists know that a traditional family is a man and woman. These religions know that marriage is between a man and woman.
This is where the fight lies regarding gay marriage with Christians, and I know from talking to people of other faiths, they agree with Christians.
Is society going to be defined by a truth or a lie?
So how does one become Gay?
We know through scientific research and a complete map of the DNA strand that there is no gay gene. This means a person is not born this way. Lady Gaga got it wrong. So what are the ways a person becomes gay?
Self-Will: That means it’s a conscious choice. Media, culture, pornography, low expectations, spousal abuse, unhealthy family relationships, and weak father-child relationships to name a few. This makes sense because we have seen a growing percentage of homosexuals in society, parallel with the growing number of unhealthy relationships and broken families.
After talking to homosexuals, and watching how the gay lifestyle operates, one will realize that every gay person is introduced to the lifestyle. There is active solicitation.
No baby comes out of the womb stating,”I want to be gay. A lawyer. A doctor. A drug addict. Prostitute,etc.” What happens to that baby will be shaped by environment and the choices the baby makes as an adult.
So what are the health ramifications of homosexuality?
Homosexuals are 23 times more likely than heterosexuals to suffer disease.
Their life expectancy is cut 33 years short. In fact, the average life expectancy is 41 years old. Smoking only cuts ones life short by seven years on average in comparison.
What is not publicized, that should be on billboards and in schools, is that only 1% of homosexuals die of old age. 99% dies of the lifestyle. Sin is deadly.
In my personal life during college, I had connections with two females who entered the lesbian lifestyle. One was molested at a young age, and another was raped at around ten years old. Both were nice to talk with and be around, but as they told me, they just didn’t feel comfortable around men anymore. Of course neither were willing to join me in church. They chose the path of man and society. The last I heard from one of them, she was heavily into marijuana, alcohol, and constantly changing partners. This is another common problem of homosexuality. It has serious health ramifications!
So can a homosexual be a Christian?
A homosexual Christian may believe everything regarding love and biblical justice, but Jesus states if you love me you will keep my commandments. Whether your a regular thief, murderer, adulterer, prostitute, or homosexual, God calls us to change our ways. Our ways signal to others whether we are Christian or not.
So, if you actively participate in the gay lifestyle, or any other sin on a regular basis, you are not a Christian. If you turn from your ways, repent, ask God for forgiveness, and practice biblical truths, then you are a Christian.
It’s really that simple and clear.
So what does one do to counter the Gay marriage movement?
1. Avoid the homosexual lifestyle because it is learned behavior.
2. Hate homosexual sin, but not the person.
3. Do not tolerate sin.
4. Use your voting power to stop sinful legislation.
5. Never believe that gay marriage is a right. It is a sin.
6. Teach your children that homosexuality is a sin.
8. Encourage others to stand strong against this sin.
9. Make sure you align yourself with biblical values.
Final Thoughts
So we know that biblically homosexuality is a learned sin, the causes are from sin, and the lifestyle causes unhealthy relationships and health. We know that homosexuals can choose to confront their sins and change if it is in their hearts to do so. We know that there is a battle going on for the very seed of family truth. We know society will be defined by truth or sin. Let’s all hope we stick with truth, or things as we know it will only get worse.
Albert Moyer, Jr. 
Where did you get the average homosexual only lives to 41 number? Can you give me a citation?
Al my pastor mentioned this in sermon. I do not have a citation. I found this link that has quite a bit of data regarding the age. One thing for certain. Homosexuality takes a lot off a persons life span. http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/22SxSo/PnSx/HSx/hosx_lifspn.htm
There are major selection and representation biases in those studies. As an example, you can read the following:
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_cameron_obit.html
That aside, it probably shouldn’t be surprising that gay men are likely to have a lower life expectancy. With the outbreak of AIDS in the 80s and 90s, an adolescent suicide rate 5 times that of the straight population, etc. it only stands to reason that they have lower life expectancy. I’d be interested in seeing if the life expectancy gap is narrowing circa 2013 given greater knowledge about AIDS and the increased effectiveness of antiretroviral drugs.
Anyhow, I’m curious about why you think homosexuality is “abnormal?” It is statistically rare relative to being straight. It’s unlikely that more than 10% of the population is gay – according to the Kinsey study your pastor cited. However, something being statistically rare doesn’t make it bad. Only 2% of the population has an IQ over 140. I suppose that’s by definition “abnormal” as well. Unless by abnormal, you mean unnatural, which I would also reject
You are comparing apples to oranges when you talk of IQ’s and behavior. For instance, a Down’s syndrome child has a chromosomal abnormality that causes intellectual disability. A child with this condition will never be able to reach 140 IQ. A person who learns an unnatural or abnormal behavior on the other hand has a choice.
You should check this link, it is a study that shows while there is no gene that causes homosexuality, that there is in fact a biological process even more subtle and complex than simple genetics – and effectively demonstrating that homosexuality is biological, not an object of choice. http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/668167 also, it troubles me that while you are stating the idea of ‘hate the sin not the sinner’ that much of what is above appears to be laced with hate. You give statistics that have no citations and no basis in fact. Interestingly, several of the things you have stated were recently regurgitated within the U.S. Senate by a Senator who was forced to repeal his statements when confronted by an openly gay senator from Iowa.
While I am not gay, and thereby technically not effected by any of this, I believe that being compassionate and conscious of other’s feelings and lives is important. I have gay and transexual friends, most of which are very good and kind people. I won’t open up the can of worms on if it is ‘sin’ or anything else, because that has been done. But, I will note how offended they are everytime someone refers to it as a choice; for while we can choose our clothing and food, I’ve never met anyone who can decide willfully whom they are attracted to – which is why so many people hide lovers that they consider to be ’embarassing’ or ‘inappropriate’ regardless of their sexual orientation.
Let’s clear one thing up right from the start. The homosexual community will pay large amounts of money and will die trying to justify their sin. It is a lifestyle choice. People have choice to sin or not sin. I have had several homosexuals tell me they chose the lifestyle. Both lesbian and gay men. The whole argument regarding “born this way” is for protection status only.
I feel no need to site studies, because I am blogging. If someone wants to research, there is plenty of data that supports the truth I have laid out.
To bad the Senator from Iowa was weak in his position. That’s much of the problem in America today. People not willing to take a stand. Yet, they will keep saying,”My God what is going on with people. What is happening to the World.”
I willfully chose all woman I ever dated. I never used attraction as the key. I looked at their heart. Some were overweight, some racially different than me, some skinny, etc. What I looked for was a great person who had a strong mind. That was a conscientious choice.
I can understand why homosexuals live with stigma and feel hurt. This is because God knew them in the womb, There minds are fighting the holy spirit inside of them and what God wants them to be. Anyone who fights what God wants them to be will struggle. It is sad that people who sin feel offended, but if they were working to stop the sin it would change their whole outlook on life.
There are MILLIONS of testimonials, about people who have been saved from any sin you can think of, all over the World through Jesus Christ.
When people state that Christians are stating hate, what is actually being said by them is,”We hate God!”, and let me tell you I meet a lot of people who hate God. It is an evil inside that says,”To hell with God. We want to do what we want to do.” A conscientious choice!
I appreciate your point of view, but I would simply like to say that for all of that, the one thing I will address is your last statement. It’s your right to believe as you will and you and I don’t have to agree. However, I find your assertion that those who point out those who promote hateful ideas as ‘hating God’. I have no problem with Christianity or Christians. I do not hate god, and in fact, I love not only god but I have love for all who inhabit the earth. Your religious inclination isn’t a factor at all. Those who promote the hate of people different than them come in all creeds, colors and ages. Just because someone doesn’t believe as you doesn’t mean that they ‘hate God’ or anything else so cut and dry. It just means that they believe differently than you. I seem to remember you noting this as an open discussion and that you would respect others ideals. I appreciate your passion, but it can be good to open yourself to a sound and dispassionate debate to understand better the roots of your beliefs and challenge yourself to grow as a person by – even if you don’t change your view – trying to consider points of view that aren’t your own to better understand. For – ‘let the man who is free from sin cast the first stone.’
What I am stating is not opinion. It is God’s word. I am not upset with your disagreeing with me because you are disagreeing with God’s written word. The first Matthew 7:1 you refer to that people who want to use so often to justify sin is always used out of context by those who do not read the surrounding verses. It’s a common blurb by those who do not understand the whole Bible. We are to judge in rightiousness. God tells us to watchout for the unfruitful. Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. Jesus made judgements all throughout the gospels. It’s one of the main reasons he was crucified. Jesus made judgments all through the gospels.( Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matthew 7:1 – 7:3 states: Stop judging that you may not be judged; for with what judgement you are judging, you will be judged; and with the measure that you are measuring out they will then measure you. Why then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye but do not consider the rafter in your own eye.
The continuance of this verse speaks of removing your own imperfections (the rafter in your eye) before you attempt to change others and remove their problems. Which, in this context, would still have been wholly appropriate for me to quote; considering that the crux of the issue for me is that while you speak of love in brief you present much more hate. Once you have removed the hate from yourself, perhaps you could see more clearly? (Not meaning that you would think gays are right, or deserve to marry or anything like that; but an epiphany and change of view is always simply that. Perhaps you would come to a deeper understanding of yourself and the world around you and become closer to god simply be making room where that hate used to be.)
However, that was not what I quoted. ‘let he who is free of sin cast the first stone’ is from John 8:1 – 8:11; in which the Pharisees wish to punish a woman caught committing an adulterous act. Jesus chose not to punish her not because he was dismissing or encouraging her sin, but because those who were persecuting her were hypocrites.
Ephesians 4:31,5:1-5:17 Taken as a whole show something very different than what you are purporting. Anyone can take a line or two and make it work. But taking an entire teaching and understanding the whole can be more difficult. This passage notes that: Eph 4:31-5-1: Let all malicious bitterness and anger and wrath and screaming and abusive speech be taken away from you along with all badness. But become kind to one another tenderly compassionate freely forgiving one another just as God also by Christ freely forgave you. Therefore become imitators of God, as beloved children, and go on walking in love, just as the Christ also loved you and delivered himself up fo you as an offering and sacrifice to God and the sweet-smelling odor.
To be godly one must cast out the hate, malice and abusive speech from yourself. The passage continues on for some time to say that once you have cast out these things from your own life and person that you remain that way. That you don’t fall from grace and indulge in hurtful actions and that by avoiding this and remaining good that you that the light of Christ shines upon you. It tells you to keep strict watch on how YOU walk that you not fall from grace. But it says nothing about the comdemning the actions of others. Quite the opposite in fact.
Following up your Matthew 7:15 – 7:16 I would like to add:
Matthew 7:17 – 7:20 : Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.
You reap what you sow. if you plant a cherry tree, no matter how much attention you give it, you won’t cultivate apples. Likewise, if the seeds you plant are hatred and fear you can not hope to cultivate love and respect.
I do want to thank you, however, for this discussion. I appreciate that you have shared your views so candidly and were open to discourse. It is only through the sharing of ideas, however unpopular on either side, that we grow and learn more about ourselves and others.
You state,”issue for me is that while you speak of love in brief, you present much more hate.”
Telling others how they can better their lives is not preaching hate. Showing them verses that show their sin is not preaching hate. This is love. God tells us faith, hope, and love. The greatest of these is love. You don’t love anyone by allowing them to live in sin. For the wages of sin is death.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.
You state,”To be godly one must cast out the hate, malice and abusive speech from yourself.” I did nothing more than quote God’s word. I would love for you to point out my abusive speech and hate.
You stated from Biblical verse,” That you don’t fall from grace and indulge in hurtful actions ” Homosexuals are living disgracefully in the eyes of God. Do you agree? Is it not a disgrace to live in sin daily? This is God’s word. For one to say,”I am homosexual, I live this life daily, and state I am a Christian is absolutely impossible.” To state the contrary would to be a distortion of God’s word. Should we legalize prostitution? Another sin?
You quote the verses from Matthew 7:17 – 7:20. Is it not clear that the homosexuals are the bad fruit? No where in the Bible does it say,”Followers of Christ. I hate them.”, but it does state that God hates homosexuality.
The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, the Bible tells us that God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that a person becomes a homosexual because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger / rage, does that make it right for then to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true for homosexuality.
Homosexuals are reaping what they sow in the form of suicide, disease, shortened life’s, etc., because they are going against being good fruit. To attempt to circumvent scripture, marginalize the word of God, and tell others that their choice is o.k. is absolute heresy and blasphemy. They are blaspheming the word of God.
Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
On a positive note, I came into contact with a 15 year old girl about two years ago that was contemplating becoming a lesbian. She had a lot of home trouble, abuse, etc. and was really struggling to make sense of the world. Her counselor taught her that she should become a lesbian. Of course I thought to myself,”What is wrong with this professional? Leading a person into a lifestyle that could harm her for life.” I talked to her about Christ. She never heard much about him. She started attending church. Her whole life changed. She is now happily with a young man who is also Christ centered and very happy. I will never forget her words,”Thank you for helping me.”
I help anyone I can and I am open to listen to everyone.
The unsupported statistics is the biggest promotion of hate and false representation. AIDS patients are the ones who typically have a life expectancy of 40 years old on average. This is for heterosexuals infected with HIV/AIDS as well as homosexuals. Not all, or even most, homosexuals have HIV/AIDS or any STDs.
You state that 99% die of the lifestyle. This in and of itself is another misrepresentation of factual information in which this statistic was pulled out of thin air.
You bring forth the idea that scientific research proving that sexual orientation is not a choice is a conspiracy by the homosexuals to force acceptance.
You state that homosexuals reap what they sow and there by deserve death by disease, depression and more.
As for the scriptures. No, it is not obvious. In fact, those scriptures can be applied to many situations because it is a metaphor for reaping what one sows. I see no references to homosexuality near or surrounding it, It simply states a spiritual truth. Speaking for God by stating ‘Well, God really meant this’ when that is not clearly expressed is a dangerous game, which is why scriptures in the past were left to theologians with many years of study and enlightenment or to those with exceptional knowledge in comparative religion.
Why would it be a pattern that continues to repeat in nature, including all throughout the animal kingdom? For homosexual behavior had been observed in animals other than humans throughout history.
There are several studies for unbiased sources that refute what you say. Yet, there are no sites or sources which confirm your assertions and statistics save for sites linked to sites which are run by groups tagged as ‘extreme right wing’, to be kind.
You asked for me to cite your hate. So I have. I am sure that you will stick to your previous statements. This is simply a place where we differ. I believe that your statements in these regards are hateful. They do not speak of loving and helping people to live better, but of condemnation. But, that is merely my opinion.
I don’t want you or anyone else to change their views or to give up something you believe so fervently in. My only hope has been to promote thought and perhaps a little compassion. I sadly think you misunderstood much of what I have tried to say, but I blame the medium in which it is expressed.
Agree to disagree. Great debate. 🙂
Agreed. Thank you so much for speaking with me openly.
No problem! I agree with you that we all learn from speaking openly. The problem is many people have gone Maury Povich and Jerry Springer. It’s a lack of intellect in the World.
Why do Christians care? Why don’t they let god take care of what god takes care of and just mind their own business while here on Earth? If the good Christian follows all of god’s rules here on Earth and then goes to heaven does he/she get a bonus or something in heaven for having helped to stamp out sin on Earth? Jesus says, “Judge not lest ye be judged.” Was he wrong?
Read the prior comments, and The Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will have a better understanding. It will clear up all of your questions. Fact or Fiction: The Answer is always in the research. 🙂